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DerbyDad03 wrote: > On Nov 4, 12:05 pm, "dadiOH" <dad...@invalid.com> wrote: >> One other point...
>> Everyone has one dominant eye. If you do the near/far lens thing, >> put the prescription for the activity you most use (near/far) in the >> dominant eye.
>> You can determine which eye is dominant by pointing at something. >> Now close one eye...are you still pointing where you were? If so, >> the open eye is the dominant eye.
>> --
>> dadiOH
>> - Show quoted text -
> re: "...are you still pointing where you were?"
> Of course I am.
> Closing one eye didn't make my arm move.
Then close the other eye.
If you'll look carefully when you point you'll see that there are *two* fingers out there pointing (unless you only have one eye). When pointing, our brain ignores one of them and selects the dominant eye as the "rear sight".
--
dadiOH ____________________________
dadiOH's dandies v3.06... ...a help file of info about MP3s, recording from LP/cassette and tips & tricks on this and that. Get it at http://mysite.verizon.net/xico
I don't know of any wallet keys with the RF gadget, or the resistor pellet. Wish there were. Yes, some of the RF key head are a bit too large for my liking.
-- Christopher A. Young Learn more about Jesus www.lds.org .
> I'll be sure to remember we've got a locksmith here when a > lock question > arises! Actually, I do have one: I've always carried > something called > an > "Ilco Unican Keycard Pat pending 82511A/88 1" which is a > like a thick > plastic credit card that has a copy of my car key that > snaps in the > middle. > My new car had an "immobilizer" and has a chip in the key > head that the > ignition reads and then allows the car to start. The key > head is very > thick > and won't fit into a wallet very well. Is there are way > around this? Do > they make "wallet" key card for RF enabled ignition keys?
> As Bill the Cat would say: "Gack!" Another thing to look forward to > like finger and toenails get so thick I need surgical scissors to cut > them. Oddly enough, inside I still feel about 25 years old (although > my wife insists I act more like I think I am 13) but outside, Father > time keeps kicking me in the knees, stepping on my fingers, grinding > down my teeth, stealing my hair while I sleep and making my hairline > make a beeline for my neckline. But I consider myself lucky. My > friend goes to his dermatologist to get his skin tabs shaved as often > as I get my hair cut. And at least I don't have double vision - yet! > (-:
Can't help on the other problems but I've solved the long-toenail difficulty.
Robert Green wrote: > <norm...@earthlink.net> wrote in message news:T6OdnWuNCIJ3hG_XnZ2dnUVZ_q- > <stuff snipped> >> Eyes are strange....I got a routine eye exam, first in about 5 years, >> last Jan. I'm post-medicare, but not ancient :o) Hubby usually drives, >> so I don't drive often. Out driving alone one day, I had double vision. >> It was after noon, had had nothing to eat yet, so figured it was low >> blood sugar. Knew it wasn't a brain tumor, as it only happened that >> once. Month or two later, got it again. Went back to the cheapo >> optemetrist, who checked my prescription and later redid the exam. No >> change. Got double vision again, so went to MD. Ahah! One eye crosses >> (invisibly, no less) and my eyes had always "adjusted". Got new >> glasses, and all is well when I drive. Now my vision is more blurry >> without glasses than it was previously but no more double vision. Very >> disconcerting when you know the road has two lanes but yer seein' four >> lanes :o)
> As Bill the Cat would say: "Gack!" Another thing to look forward to like > finger and toenails get so thick I need surgical scissors to cut them.
And you call yourself a DIYer? On AHR?! A Dremel tool works nicely with a sanding drum tip...Of course, if you can't reach toes or see them well, you need an assistant :o)
> Oddly enough, inside I still feel about 25 years old (although my wife > insists I act more like I think I am 13) but outside, Father time keeps > kicking me in the knees, stepping on my fingers, grinding down my teeth, > stealing my hair while I sleep and making my hairline make a beeline for my > neckline. But I consider myself lucky. My friend goes to his dermatologist > to get his skin tabs shaved as often as I get my hair cut. And at least I > don't have double vision - yet! (-:
> "Roger Shoaf" <sh...@nospamsyix.com> wrote in message > news:1257287398.389926@news01.syix.com... > I'll be sure to remember we've got a locksmith here when a lock question > arises! Actually, I do have one: I've always carried something called an > "Ilco Unican Keycard Pat pending 82511A/88 1" which is a like a thick > plastic credit card that has a copy of my car key that snaps in the middle. > My new car had an "immobilizer" and has a chip in the key head that the > ignition reads and then allows the car to start. The key head is very thick > and won't fit into a wallet very well. Is there are way around this? Do > they make "wallet" key card for RF enabled ignition keys?
> Thanks for your help,
The only wallet keys with the chip that I have seen would be on the real high end stuff like Lexus.
What I would suggest is to get a spare with the chip, stash that in the trunk and then get the wallet key that will let you into the trunk.
What kind of car do you have?
--
__ Roger Shoaf
Important factors in selecting a mate: 1] Depth of gene pool 2] Position on the food chain.
On Wed, 04 Nov 2009 14:35:26 -0700, charlie wrote: >> My new car had an "immobilizer" and has a chip in the key head that the >> ignition reads and then allows the car to start. The key head is very >> thick >> and won't fit into a wallet very well. Is there are way around this? Do >> they make "wallet" key card for RF enabled ignition keys?
I think that's highly dependent on the system. I had an after-market immobilizer fitted to one of my cars and it can with a little cylindrical widget about an inch long and 3/8" diameter which just dangled from the same keyring as the key and was read by the immobilizer.
Are you sure your key doesn't do other stuff, too (remote door locking etc. and therefore has a battery in it and other 'guts')? I've seen cars where they'll supply two keys as standard - one that's just the immobolizer/ignition and one that does all the other stuff too; the bigger one's almost twice the size of the smaller...
> DerbyDad03 wrote: > > On Nov 4, 12:05 pm, "dadiOH" <dad...@invalid.com> wrote: > >> One other point...
> >> Everyone has one dominant eye. If you do the near/far lens thing, > >> put the prescription for the activity you most use (near/far) in the > >> dominant eye.
> >> You can determine which eye is dominant by pointing at something. > >> Now close one eye...are you still pointing where you were? If so, > >> the open eye is the dominant eye.
> >> --
> >> dadiOH
> >> - Show quoted text -
> > re: "...are you still pointing where you were?"
> > Of course I am.
> > Closing one eye didn't make my arm move.
> Then close the other eye.
> If you'll look carefully when you point you'll see that there are *two* > fingers out there pointing (unless you only have one eye). When pointing, > our brain ignores one of them and selects the dominant eye as the "rear > sight".
> --
> dadiOH > ____________________________
> dadiOH's dandies v3.06... > ...a help file of info about MP3s, recording from > LP/cassette and tips & tricks on this and that. > Get it athttp://mysite.verizon.net/xico- Hide quoted text -
> - Show quoted text -
Whoosh! Right over your head. :-)
I wasn't talking about eyesight mechanics or the brain's interpretation of the light rays entering either eye.
I was simply stating that I was still *pointing* to the exact spot that I was *pointing* to before because my arm didn't move.
Jules wrote: > On Wed, 04 Nov 2009 14:35:26 -0700, charlie wrote: >>> My new car had an "immobilizer" and has a chip in the key head that the >>> ignition reads and then allows the car to start. The key head is very >>> thick >>> and won't fit into a wallet very well. Is there are way around this? Do >>> they make "wallet" key card for RF enabled ignition keys?
> I think that's highly dependent on the system. I had an after-market > immobilizer fitted to one of my cars and it can with a little > cylindrical widget about an inch long and 3/8" diameter which just dangled > from the same keyring as the key and was read by the immobilizer.
> Are you sure your key doesn't do other stuff, too (remote door locking > etc. and therefore has a battery in it and other 'guts')? I've seen cars > where they'll supply two keys as standard - one that's just the > immobolizer/ignition and one that does all the other stuff too; the bigger > one's almost twice the size of the smaller...
> cheers
> Jules
My van came with ONE of those, and no other keys. It cost me $125 or so at the locksmith on the way home, to get two smaller keys programmed using the magic number the dealer gave me. And since idiot chrysler expects everyone to carry around that huge key the size of a serving spoon, only the driver door and hatch have lock cylinders. Major PITA. Key isn't just huge, the tiny loop angled the wrong direction means you can't put it on a key ring and carry keys in your pants pocket. Been meaning to see if anyone sells an aftermarket fob that could be programmed to talk to the van without killing the original huge key and vanilla security keys. Maybe buy a used key off ebay or something, and just cut the shaft off.
Never understood the purpose of remote locks that only work from a few feet away. You are standing at the damn door anyway, and if keys are in your pocket, you already have to set down whatever you are carrying with that arm.
> I don't know of any wallet keys with the RF gadget, or the > resistor pellet. Wish there were. Yes, some of the RF key > head are a bit too large for my liking.
When my car was broken into, they left with me two dead keys by the time my steering column was repaired. I'm going to perform an "auto key autospy" to see if the chip can be removed and encased in something slimmer. Then I might try it with a good key.
> On Wed, 04 Nov 2009 14:35:26 -0700, charlie wrote: > >> My new car had an "immobilizer" and has a chip in the key head that the > >> ignition reads and then allows the car to start. The key head is very > >> thick > >> and won't fit into a wallet very well. Is there are way around this? Do > >> they make "wallet" key card for RF enabled ignition keys?
> I think that's highly dependent on the system. I had an after-market > immobilizer fitted to one of my cars and it can with a little > cylindrical widget about an inch long and 3/8" diameter which just dangled > from the same keyring as the key and was read by the immobilizer.
> Are you sure your key doesn't do other stuff, too (remote door locking > etc. and therefore has a battery in it and other 'guts')? I've seen cars > where they'll supply two keys as standard - one that's just the > immobolizer/ignition and one that does all the other stuff too; the bigger > one's almost twice the size of the smaller...
I've got a keyfob that does all that, and now that you remind me, I could technically use that to get in and out of the car (unless the battery dies!) and keep the RF enabled key hidden somewhere in the car. The RF keys (it's a 2002 Chrysler minivan) have no battery, just a bulbous head.
I just had a friend go through conniptions after locking his keys in the car with the ignition on. It turns out that on that model Ford, when the ignition is on, the keyfob doesn't work. We finally got in by using a coat hanger to push the power window button. That incident reminded me I had only one RF key for my van, and I ought to get a second one.
> > I'll be sure to remember we've got a locksmith here when a lock question > > arises! Actually, I do have one: I've always carried something called > an > > "Ilco Unican Keycard Pat pending 82511A/88 1" which is a like a thick > > plastic credit card that has a copy of my car key that snaps in the > middle. > > My new car had an "immobilizer" and has a chip in the key head that the > > ignition reads and then allows the car to start. The key head is very > thick > > and won't fit into a wallet very well. Is there are way around this? Do > > they make "wallet" key card for RF enabled ignition keys?
> > Thanks for your help,
> The only wallet keys with the chip that I have seen would be on the real > high end stuff like Lexus.
> What I would suggest is to get a spare with the chip, stash that in the > trunk and then get the wallet key that will let you into the trunk.
> > <stuff snipped> > >> Eyes are strange....I got a routine eye exam, first in about 5 years, > >> last Jan. I'm post-medicare, but not ancient :o) Hubby usually drives, > >> so I don't drive often. Out driving alone one day, I had double vision. > >> It was after noon, had had nothing to eat yet, so figured it was low > >> blood sugar. Knew it wasn't a brain tumor, as it only happened that > >> once. Month or two later, got it again. Went back to the cheapo > >> optemetrist, who checked my prescription and later redid the exam. No > >> change. Got double vision again, so went to MD. Ahah! One eye crosses > >> (invisibly, no less) and my eyes had always "adjusted". Got new > >> glasses, and all is well when I drive. Now my vision is more blurry > >> without glasses than it was previously but no more double vision. Very > >> disconcerting when you know the road has two lanes but yer seein' four > >> lanes :o)
> > As Bill the Cat would say: "Gack!" Another thing to look forward to like > > finger and toenails get so thick I need surgical scissors to cut them.
> And you call yourself a DIYer? On AHR?! A Dremel tool works nicely > with a sanding drum tip...Of course, if you can't reach toes or see them > well, you need an assistant :o)
> On Tue, 03 Nov 2009 09:00:56 -0500, Robert Green wrote: > > Any hints, clues, tips, suggestions?
> You could possibly notch the vertical face of the most common ones for the > types of job that you do using a hacksaw or a cutting disc in a grinder > (e.g. 1 notch for 3/8", 2 for 1/2", 3 for 9/16"). Maybe spacing the > notches at 90 degree intervals (or 45) will make them far enough apart to > avoid ambiguity.
> Personally I've found that if I'm using sockets a lot I can just look at a > bolt and know what size it is, and look at a socket bit and do the same. I > seem to lose that skill if I'm not using them often though, and it all > falls apart given a mixture of AF / Whitworth / BSF / Metric sizes (which > often applies to old British cars :-)
> cheers
> Jules
Actually, part of the problem is putting the poorly marked sockets and bits BACK into their cases, which have much better markings. I've started an index card list of the sizes of the items around the house that always need the occasional tightening so I can save myself the trouble of trying five sockets to find the right one. Owned a Jag and a Triumph before I swore off British cars forever. Got all those damn oddball sizes and know all the jokes like: Why do the English like warm beer? Because Lucas makes refrigerators.
> My van came with ONE of those, and no other keys. It cost me $125 or so > at the locksmith on the way home, to get two smaller keys programmed > using the magic number the dealer gave me. And since idiot chrysler > expects everyone to carry around that huge key the size of a serving > spoon, only the driver door and hatch have lock cylinders. Major PITA.
You got off cheap. My dealer wanted $125 for ONE key! That's just outrageous.
"Robert Green" <robert_green1...@yah00.com> wrote in message news:hd1vao$nc3
> 2002 Chrysler minivan
OK there are two ways to approach this one. First is as I suggested would be to stash the transponder key inside the car somewhere and use a standard key for entry. The second way would be to bypass the transponder system. Here you could remove the antenna ring from around the lock and tape a key inside and use a mechanical key to start the car.
This is not advised if you are in an area that you are likely to have a minivan stolen, and your insurance company may very well balk if it is and you file a claim and they find out you had bypassed the theft deterrent, but the choice is yours.
-- Roger Shoaf If you are not part of the solution, you are not dissolved in the solvent.
On Fri, 06 Nov 2009 16:32:35 -0500, Robert Green wrote: >> Personally I've found that if I'm using sockets a lot I can just look at a >> bolt and know what size it is, and look at a socket bit and do the same. I >> seem to lose that skill if I'm not using them often though, and it all >> falls apart given a mixture of AF / Whitworth / BSF / Metric sizes (which >> often applies to old British cars :-)
> Actually, part of the problem is putting the poorly marked sockets and bits > BACK into their cases, which have much better markings.
Aha, OK. I'm not always that organized - half the time I end up with a small pile of socket bits on top of the case, and every few months they'll end up back where they should be :-)
> Owned a Jag and a Triumph before I swore off British cars forever. Got > all those damn oddball sizes and know all the jokes like: Why do the > English like warm beer? Because Lucas makes refrigerators.
:-) I've had several Triumphs, a couple of old British Fords, and worked on many a vintage Rover... much of the problem was the vast number of owners that many of these cars have had over the years though, and they'd use whatever bits they could get their hands on to fix things. Although Triumph's quality control could be a bit random too (and you wouldn't believe the amount of casting sand I've pulled out of their engine blocks...
Oddly, I've never had much trouble with Lucas electrics, despite the reputation.
Oh, I always wanted a classic Jag XJ6 or XJ12 but could never have afforded to run it back in the UK, but of course it's a lot cheaper here in the US (like, 1/8th of the cost) and I think they did export quite a few, so I might find one this side of the Pond someday...
"Jules" <jules.richardsonn...@remove.this.gmail.com> wrote in message
<stuff snipped>
> :-) I've had several Triumphs, a couple of old British Fords, and worked > on many a vintage Rover... much of the problem was the vast number of > owners that many of these cars have had over the years though, and they'd > use whatever bits they could get their hands on to fix things. Although > Triumph's quality control could be a bit random too (and you wouldn't > believe the amount of casting sand I've pulled out of their engine
blocks...
I sold my TR6 shortly after a neighbor's kid beheaded himself in a TR4. Got a used Ford LTD patrol car at auction - a heavied up version that could probably roll right over a Triumph. Only got 7 MPG, had a monstrous engine in it and a trunk that was probably large enough to hold a disassembled Triumph. That was back when gas was 32 cents a gallon and no one had ever heard of global warming. Hard to believe.
> Oddly, I've never had much trouble with Lucas electrics, despite the > reputation.
Neither have I, but there are enough similar jokes that I suspect there's a grain of truth in it. SU carbs were a totally different case. Hope I never see another one. Every bad thing I had ever heard about them was true, plus some things I had never heard.
> Oh, I always wanted a classic Jag XJ6 or XJ12 but could never have > afforded to run it back in the UK, but of course it's a lot cheaper here > in the US (like, 1/8th of the cost) and I think they did export quite a > few, so I might find one this side of the Pond someday...
Maybe. I had a Mark X and belonged to the local Jag club. I remember when one of the guys invited me over to see his new XJ12. I was standing next to it when I asked him why the hood was so hot. The answer was that it was running! I had no idea because it ran so quietly it made almost no noise. Looking under the hood revealed a mass of cross-linkages the likes of which I have never seen before. It was the most complicated automobile engine I've ever seen, before or since. I wonder how long it stayed as ghostly quiet as those first few 1000 miles. With all the moving levers, I suspect it wasn't long. What I'd really like is an X-KE, but those are incredibly expensive now, even old rusted through hulks. I always thought Ford/Jaguar could have made a fortune reviving that version, or one very much like it.
Some of the "chips" are an electrical resistor. And some are a RF transponder. Depending which kind of car it is, and what they were using. On some vehicles, replacing the column should not change the resistor value. Not sure about the transponders. I've got less learning about those.
-- Christopher A. Young Learn more about Jesus www.lds.org .
"Robert Green" <robert_green1...@yah00.com> wrote in message
When my car was broken into, they left with me two dead keys by the time my steering column was repaired. I'm going to perform an "auto key autospy" to see if the chip can be removed and encased in something slimmer. Then I might try it with a good key.
> Some of the "chips" are an electrical resistor. And some are > a RF transponder. Depending which kind of car it is, and > what they were using. On some vehicles, replacing the column > should not change the resistor value. Not sure about the > transponders. I've got less learning about those.
When they returned the parts to me, one of them was labelled "immobiliser" - yes, Brit spelling, dunno why. I guess it's time for a post mortem on that, too. My understanding is that it's device like the little foil anti-theft things they put into high priced items at Wal-mart and other similar stores with electronic exit gates. If the car's sensor doesn't detect such a device during starting, the engine turns but never starts.
I found some instructions for a "Autotop Skim programmer" that's sold to work around the problem that gives you an idea of how it works:
"This is a small standalone device that can overwrite the pin code stored within the skim module fitted to Chrysler/Jeep & Dodge. This will then allow new keys to be programmed into the vehicle. The skim module is Chrysler terminology for a combined immobiliser and aerial module. Writing a new pin code to the skim module involves removing the Skim module, which is located around the ignition barrel, from the vehicle, which is a fairly simple process. The pin code that is written to the skim module is a fixed code that will be detailed with each kit. Once the new pin code has been written to the module, keys can be programmed into the vehicle by using any Diagnostics key programming tool which is fitted."
Not sure that helps me with two dead RF keys and one live one. I don't like the idea of having to leave the RF key hidden in the car, either, although that will be the cheapest solution. More research needed
> "Robert Green" <robert_green1...@yah00.com> wrote in message news:hd1vao$nc3
> > 2002 Chrysler minivan
> OK there are two ways to approach this one. First is as I suggested would > be to stash the transponder key inside the car somewhere and use a standard > key for entry. The second way would be to bypass the transponder system. > Here you could remove the antenna ring from around the lock and tape a key > inside and use a mechanical key to start the car.
> This is not advised if you are in an area that you are likely to have a > minivan stolen, and your insurance company may very well balk if it is and > you file a claim and they find out you had bypassed the theft deterrent, but > the choice is yours.
Since my need for a spare key came about as a result of kids trying to steal the van, and the insurance company only providing one replacement key, I would have to say I live in an area where minivans are stolen. (-:
I've been Googling all over to try to find the cheapest way to get a second or third key made up, and it turns out that the equipment to do so would cost as much or more as the getting the keys made from a locksmith, and there's no guarantee they would work, either.
So, it's back to Google and then the phones on Monday to see who's got the lowest prices on Chrysler minivan RF keys.
Robert Green wrote: > "aemeijers" <aemeij...@att.net> wrote in message > <stuff snipped>
>> My van came with ONE of those, and no other keys. It cost me $125 or so >> at the locksmith on the way home, to get two smaller keys programmed >> using the magic number the dealer gave me. And since idiot chrysler >> expects everyone to carry around that huge key the size of a serving >> spoon, only the driver door and hatch have lock cylinders. Major PITA.
> You got off cheap. My dealer wanted $125 for ONE key! That's just > outrageous.
> -- > Bobby G.
Do you have the paperwork for the new column they put in? The 'magic number' should be in there- with that, you can just start calling locksmiths directly.
> > "Robert Green" <robert_green1...@yah00.com> wrote in message > news:hd1vao$nc3
> > > 2002 Chrysler minivan
> I've been Googling all over to try to find the cheapest way to get a second > or third key made up, and it turns out that the equipment to do so would > cost as much or more as the getting the keys made from a locksmith, and > there's no guarantee they would work, either.
> So, it's back to Google and then the phones on Monday to see who's got the > lowest prices on Chrysler minivan RF keys.
> Thanks for your input, Roger.
OK see your local locksmiths. There will be two options here, one is to clone the key you have and the second option is to have the locksmith reprogram with standard keys. You can get by cheaper if you go without the remote buttons on the duplicate keys.
--
Roger Shoaf
About the time I had mastered getting the toothpaste back in the tube, then they come up with this striped stuff.
> OK see your local locksmiths. There will be two options here, one is to > clone the key you have and the second option is to have the locksmith > reprogram with standard keys. You can get by cheaper if you go without the > remote buttons on the duplicate keys.
That is what I did, mainly to get smaller keys. Sure wish all the doors had lock cylinders, though, like my old van. Or at least a separate fob for the buttons, like it had. Damn cheap Chrysler.
> Robert Green wrote: > > "charlie" <chania...@nospam.yahoo.com> wrote in message > > news:hcss31$892$1@news.eternal-september.org... > >> "Robert Green" <robert_green1...@yah00.com> wrote in message > >> news:hcsr42$umt$2@news.eternal-september.org... > >>> I'll be sure to remember we've got a locksmith here when a lock question > >>> arises! Actually, I do have one: I've always carried something called > >>> an > >>> "Ilco Unican Keycard Pat pending 82511A/88 1" which is a like a thick > >>> plastic credit card that has a copy of my car key that snaps in the > >>> middle. > >>> My new car had an "immobilizer" and has a chip in the key head that the > >>> ignition reads and then allows the car to start. The key head is very > >>> thick > >>> and won't fit into a wallet very well. Is there are way around this? > > Do > >>> they make "wallet" key card for RF enabled ignition keys?
> >>> Thanks for your help,
> >>> -- > >>> Bobby G. > >> those are not for starting/driving. they are for opening the door when you > >> lock yourself out of the car.
> > Well, my old wallet key starts and runs my 1990 car! I guess I could hide a > > spare RF enabled key inside the car somewhere and use the wallet version to > > let me in to get it. Not ideal, but probably workable. In fact, I had the > > car broken into and the steering column popped but without the RF key, all > > it did was grind up the starter motor, so I have a spare key I could cut > > down like the Ilco key and carry that with me. Now to figure out where to > > get a cheap key dupe for a Chrysler. The last I checked they wanted an > > obscene amount of money. Any suggestions as we wonder far, far away from > > the thread topic?
> > -- > > Bobby G.
> Any good independent locksmith can beat the dealer price by at least > 1/3. Around here, the Chrysler dealer doesn't even do keys any more- > they send them to the local freelancer. If you don't have 2 working > keys, you will need to get the magic number from the dealer- they look > it up using the VIN. You can also buy uncut blanks on ebay, and do the > self-program voodoo on them if you have at least 2 keys, and are willing > to risk a pig in a poke versus the guaranteed keys from the locksmith. > (and if you can find a hardware store willing to cut carried-in blanks, > or are patient enough to cut them yourself by hand with a rat-tail file.)
> I hate the damn security keys, personally. Both of my cars have them, > and they make my keyring painful to carry in a pants pocket.
> -- > aem sends...
I hated them to, but not so much after the immobiliser kept a pair of teenage kids from taking my van on a joy-ride to who knows where! It was bad enough that I had a very high deductible and it cost me nearly $500 to get fixed, but that's much, much better than having the car savaged by savages and left in a ditch somewhere after all the insides had been ripped out.
Thanks for your input, I'll check out my local locksmiths first.
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