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I now have a new unfinished red oak hardwood floor installed in an apartment that I will be renting out.
What I want is a truly *CLEAR* finish to put down on the new unfinished flooring.
I have extra flooring that I have set up so I can test various finishes. I have already tested a number of stains and, if I have to, I will go with one of those. But, what I really want is to be able to put a completely clear finish over the new unfinished hardwood flooring. I like the way it looks now and I would like to be able to keep that look and coloration. All of the so-called "clear" polyurethane finishes I have tried so far are not really clear. They are amber color, and they also stain and darken the wood grain.
Here are my two questions:
1) I am interested in clear Moisture Cure Urethane (one brand is made by Garco) -- but I can't find anywhere to buy it. It is supposed to be truly clear. I know it is super volatile and maybe that's why it is not easily available. I can apparently buy it online, but then I have to wait 4 to 14 days for it to arrive. Does anyone know where I can go in person and buy this stuff? I am in New Jersey near Philadelphia, PA.
2) I haven't tested out water-based polyurethane products yet. I get the impression that they can be more clear than oil-based polyurethane. MinWax sells a clear water-based base coat and a clear water-based polyurethane that goes over the base coat. The clear base coat is supposed to seal the tannins (or something like that) in the wood so it doesn't darken, and then hopefully the top coat won't darken the wood when it is applied.
Are water-based polyurethane finishes okay for hardwood floors? Are they durable enough compared to oil-based polyurethanes? Are there any special cleaning requirements or instructions for water-based finishes that are different than for oil-based polyurethane finishes?
Can I later cover a water-based polyurethane finish with an oil-based polyurethane finish? I think the answer to that one is "no", but I thought I would ask anyway.
>I now have a new unfinished red oak hardwood floor installed in an >apartment that I will be renting out.
> What I want is a truly *CLEAR* finish to put down on the new unfinished > flooring.
> I have extra flooring that I have set up so I can test various finishes. > I have already tested a number of stains and, if I have to, I will go with > one of those. But, what I really want is to be able to put a completely > clear finish over the new unfinished hardwood flooring. I like the way it > looks now and I would like to be able to keep that look and coloration. > All of the so-called "clear" polyurethane finishes I have tried so far are > not really clear. They are amber color, and they also stain and darken > the wood grain.
> Here are my two questions:
> 1) I am interested in clear Moisture Cure Urethane (one brand is made by > Garco) -- but I can't find anywhere to buy it. It is supposed to be truly > clear. I know it is super volatile and maybe that's why it is not easily > available. I can apparently buy it online, but then I have to wait 4 to > 14 days for it to arrive. Does anyone know where I can go in person and > buy this stuff? I am in New Jersey near Philadelphia, PA.
> 2) I haven't tested out water-based polyurethane products yet. I get the > impression that they can be more clear than oil-based polyurethane. > MinWax sells a clear water-based base coat and a clear water-based > polyurethane that goes over the base coat. The clear base coat is > supposed to seal the tannins (or something like that) in the wood so it > doesn't darken, and then hopefully the top coat won't darken the wood when > it is applied.
> Are water-based polyurethane finishes okay for hardwood floors? Are they > durable enough compared to oil-based polyurethanes? Are there any special > cleaning requirements or instructions for water-based finishes that are > different than for oil-based polyurethane finishes?
> Can I later cover a water-based polyurethane finish with an oil-based > polyurethane finish? I think the answer to that one is "no", but I > thought I would ask anyway.
water based are more clear than oil based, and have a slightly blue tint rather than yellow. they do use water based for floors, but you may have to recoat more often as they may not be as hard.
ask the rest of your questions on rec.woodworking.
> I now have a new unfinished red oak hardwood floor installed in an apartment > that I will be renting out.
> What I want is a truly *CLEAR* finish to put down on the new unfinished > flooring.
> I have extra flooring that I have set up so I can test various finishes. I > have already tested a number of stains and, if I have to, I will go with one > of those. But, what I really want is to be able to put a completely clear > finish over the new unfinished hardwood flooring. I like the way it looks > now and I would like to be able to keep that look and coloration. All of > the so-called "clear" polyurethane finishes I have tried so far are not > really clear. They are amber color, and they also stain and darken the wood > grain.
> Here are my two questions:
> 1) I am interested in clear Moisture Cure Urethane (one brand is made by > Garco) -- but I can't find anywhere to buy it. It is supposed to be truly > clear. I know it is super volatile and maybe that's why it is not easily > available. I can apparently buy it online, but then I have to wait 4 to 14 > days for it to arrive. Does anyone know where I can go in person and buy > this stuff? I am in New Jersey near Philadelphia, PA.
> 2) I haven't tested out water-based polyurethane products yet. I get the > impression that they can be more clear than oil-based polyurethane. MinWax > sells a clear water-based base coat and a clear water-based polyurethane > that goes over the base coat. The clear base coat is supposed to seal the > tannins (or something like that) in the wood so it doesn't darken, and then > hopefully the top coat won't darken the wood when it is applied.
> Are water-based polyurethane finishes okay for hardwood floors? Are they > durable enough compared to oil-based polyurethanes? Are there any special > cleaning requirements or instructions for water-based finishes that are > different than for oil-based polyurethane finishes?
> Can I later cover a water-based polyurethane finish with an oil-based > polyurethane finish? I think the answer to that one is "no", but I thought > I would ask anyway.
You need to use water based if you wish to avoid yellowing. Most people never really notice the yellowing though and oil based coating have been used for a really long time.
JayB wrote: > I now have a new unfinished red oak hardwood floor installed in an apartment > that I will be renting out.
> What I want is a truly *CLEAR* finish to put down on the new unfinished > flooring.
> I have extra flooring that I have set up so I can test various finishes. I > have already tested a number of stains and, if I have to, I will go with one > of those. But, what I really want is to be able to put a completely clear > finish over the new unfinished hardwood flooring. I like the way it looks > now and I would like to be able to keep that look and coloration. All of > the so-called "clear" polyurethane finishes I have tried so far are not > really clear. They are amber color, and they also stain and darken the wood > grain.
> Here are my two questions:
> 1) I am interested in clear Moisture Cure Urethane (one brand is made by > Garco) -- but I can't find anywhere to buy it. It is supposed to be truly > clear. I know it is super volatile and maybe that's why it is not easily > available. I can apparently buy it online, but then I have to wait 4 to 14 > days for it to arrive. Does anyone know where I can go in person and buy > this stuff? I am in New Jersey near Philadelphia, PA.
> 2) I haven't tested out water-based polyurethane products yet. I get the > impression that they can be more clear than oil-based polyurethane. MinWax > sells a clear water-based base coat and a clear water-based polyurethane > that goes over the base coat. The clear base coat is supposed to seal the > tannins (or something like that) in the wood so it doesn't darken, and then > hopefully the top coat won't darken the wood when it is applied.
I don't know of a clear coat that doesn't darken wood to some extend. Of course, a very light wood like maple will darken the least. I've refinished lots of wood and have not used sealers (only stain and varnish). What kind of wood is it? Pine and oak yellow considerably exposed to sunlight, regardless of whether water or solvent based finish.
Sealing in the tannins applies to color that bleeds through and stains a painted finish ... cedar, redwood have more tannins.
> Are water-based polyurethane finishes okay for hardwood floors? Are they > durable enough compared to oil-based polyurethanes? Are there any special > cleaning requirements or instructions for water-based finishes that are > different than for oil-based polyurethane finishes?
> Can I later cover a water-based polyurethane finish with an oil-based > polyurethane finish? I think the answer to that one is "no", but I thought > I would ask anyway.
The main thing about oil and water is that they do not mix when liquid. An old finish, if properly prepared, can generally be covered with the other type as long as instructions are followed for the product.
charlie wrote: > "JayB" <J...@ertyurtio.ghj> wrote in message > news:hd1iii$4jc$1@news.eternal-september.org... >> I now have a new unfinished red oak hardwood floor installed in an >> apartment that I will be renting out. > water based are more clear than oil based, and have a slightly blue > tint rather than yellow. they do use water based for floors, but you > may have to recoat more often as they may not be as hard.
> ask the rest of your questions on rec.woodworking.
Thanks. I'll have to see how the water-based stuff looks, and see if it is clear enough and doesn't darken the wood grain like the so-called "clear" oil-based stuff does..
And, thanks for the tip about rec.woodworking. I'll post my questions there. Hopefully that group is as good as this one in terms of people providing answers and trying to help.
jamesgangnc wrote: > On Nov 6, 11:23 am, "JayB" <J...@ertyurtio.ghj> wrote: >> I now have a new unfinished red oak hardwood floor installed in an >> apartment that I will be renting out.
> You need to use water based if you wish to avoid yellowing. Most > people never really notice the yellowing though and oil based coating > have been used for a really long time.
Thanks. It's not really the slight yellowing that I am concerned about. It's the way it really darkens the grain of the unfinished hardwood -- almost like a stain -- that is what I am trying to avoid.
norm...@earthlink.net wrote: > JayB wrote: >> I now have a new unfinished red oak hardwood floor installed in an >> apartment that I will be renting out.
> I don't know of a clear coat that doesn't darken wood to some extend. > Of course, a very light wood like maple will darken the least. I've > refinished lots of wood and have not used sealers (only stain and > varnish). What kind of wood is it? Pine and oak yellow considerably > exposed to sunlight, regardless of whether water or solvent based > finish.
The wood is unfinished, #2 red oak.
> Sealing in the tannins applies to color that bleeds through and > stains a painted finish ... cedar, redwood have more tannins.
Yep, it's red oak.
> The main thing about oil and water is that they do not mix when > liquid. An old finish, if properly prepared, can generally be > covered with the other type as long as instructions are followed for > the product.
That's interesting. "Maybe" that means that I can do the job with clear water-based base coat and top coats for now. And then, sometime later on maybe cover that with clear oil-based polyurethane for more durability.
> I now have a new unfinished red oak hardwood floor installed in an apartment > that I will be renting out.
> What I want is a truly *CLEAR* finish to put down on the new unfinished > flooring.
> I have extra flooring that I have set up so I can test various finishes. I > have already tested a number of stains and, if I have to, I will go with one > of those. But, what I really want is to be able to put a completely clear > finish over the new unfinished hardwood flooring. I like the way it looks > now and I would like to be able to keep that look and coloration. All of > the so-called "clear" polyurethane finishes I have tried so far are not > really clear. They are amber color, and they also stain and darken the wood > grain.
> Here are my two questions:
> 1) I am interested in clear Moisture Cure Urethane (one brand is made by > Garco) -- but I can't find anywhere to buy it. It is supposed to be truly > clear. I know it is super volatile and maybe that's why it is not easily > available. I can apparently buy it online, but then I have to wait 4 to 14 > days for it to arrive. Does anyone know where I can go in person and buy > this stuff? I am in New Jersey near Philadelphia, PA.
> 2) I haven't tested out water-based polyurethane products yet. I get the > impression that they can be more clear than oil-based polyurethane. MinWax > sells a clear water-based base coat and a clear water-based polyurethane > that goes over the base coat. The clear base coat is supposed to seal the > tannins (or something like that) in the wood so it doesn't darken, and then > hopefully the top coat won't darken the wood when it is applied.
> Are water-based polyurethane finishes okay for hardwood floors? Are they > durable enough compared to oil-based polyurethanes? Are there any special > cleaning requirements or instructions for water-based finishes that are > different than for oil-based polyurethane finishes?
> Can I later cover a water-based polyurethane finish with an oil-based > polyurethane finish? I think the answer to that one is "no", but I thought > I would ask anyway.
You want durability its a rental that will be abused, not your living room. Gloss is clearest and most durable , what makes a lower sheen makes finishes softer and cloudy. Water base is not as durable from what I have been told but has no color and doesnt amber like oil. dont bother staining you are making more work for yourself and oil poly ambers nicely. A few coats of gloss oil followed by a finish coat of satin looks great. With a rental more coats is better I try to get 3-4. If you stain then recoating in a few years if there is damage might mean sanding to wood, with no stain recoating is much easier when there is damage
> norm...@earthlink.net wrote: > > JayB wrote: > >> I now have a new unfinished red oak hardwood floor installed in an > >> apartment that I will be renting out.
> > I don't know of a clear coat that doesn't darken wood to some extend. > > Of course, a very light wood like maple will darken the least. I've > > refinished lots of wood and have not used sealers (only stain and > > varnish). What kind of wood is it? Pine and oak yellow considerably > > exposed to sunlight, regardless of whether water or solvent based > > finish.
> The wood is unfinished, #2 red oak.
> > Sealing in the tannins applies to color that bleeds through and > > stains a painted finish ... cedar, redwood have more tannins.
> Yep, it's red oak.
> > The main thing about oil and water is that they do not mix when > > liquid. An old finish, if properly prepared, can generally be > > covered with the other type as long as instructions are followed for > > the product.
> That's interesting. "Maybe" that means that I can do the job with clear > water-based base coat and top coats for now. And then, sometime later on > maybe cover that with clear oil-based polyurethane for more durability.
I'm thinking any red oak is going to darken a good bit when covered with oil or water based clears. You should choose the wood based on the finished appearance you are seeking.
Perhaps you can try white washing it a bit before sealing. I have some cabinets that are oak and have that finish. Basically just wipe down with a cloth and some white paint. Wipe as much paint off as you can. What's left will be in the grain. Let dry. When covered with clear coat the results are pretty light.
JayB wrote: > I now have a new unfinished red oak hardwood floor installed in an > apartment that I will be renting out.
> What I want is a truly *CLEAR* finish to put down on the new > unfinished flooring.
> I have extra flooring that I have set up so I can test various > finishes. I have already tested a number of stains and, if I have > to, I will go with one of those. But, what I really want is to be > able to put a completely clear finish over the new unfinished > hardwood flooring. I like the way it looks now and I would like to > be able to keep that look and coloration. All of the so-called > "clear" polyurethane finishes I have tried so far are not really > clear. They are amber color, and they also stain and darken the wood > grain.
They are amber because they are oil based. They don't stain the wood, they wet it. Most people like that because it accentuates the grain. If you put oil base poly (3-4 coats) on a light wood the wood will be noticeably yellower.
Water base polys are white when liquid, clear when dry; however, they too wet the wood just much less than oil poly.
Someone told you about using a wiped off wash of white paint to avoid the penetration of the clear top coat. That works and will give you an appearance pretty close to the raw wood. Best to dilute the oil paint about 50/50 with thinner. The downside is that the non-penetration of the top coat means it is stuck to the residual paint, not the wood; however, I have never had any problem doing it...all my now 14 year old butternut kitchen cabinets are white washed.
You should be aware that regardless of what clear top coat you use the wood is going to change color over time and exposure to light. Generally, that change is darker.
_____________
> 2) I haven't tested out water-based polyurethane products yet. I get > the impression that they can be more clear than oil-based > polyurethane. MinWax sells a clear water-based base coat and a clear > water-based polyurethane that goes over the base coat. The clear > base coat is supposed to seal the tannins (or something like that) in > the wood so it doesn't darken, and then hopefully the top coat won't > darken the wood when it is applied.
Lots of luck with that. What happens if the wood has no tannins? Many don't.
__________________
> Are water-based polyurethane finishes okay for hardwood floors?
Yes
> Are they durable enough compared to oil-based polyurethanes?
Yes
> Are there any special cleaning requirements or instructions for > water-based > finishes that are different than for oil-based polyurethane finishes?
None I know of. Most important thing is to keep grit swept up. Polys resist scratches well but grit will eventually get them too. Especially if you used glossy rather than semi-gloss (more noticeable on gloss).
> Can I later cover a water-based polyurethane finish with an oil-based > polyurethane finish? I think the answer to that one is "no", but I > thought I would ask anyway.
Yes. And vice versa assuming the one being covered is totally dry and/or fully cured. However, unless the old surface is pretty worn it needs to be lightly sanded to promote adhesion.
--
dadiOH ____________________________
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> I now have a new unfinished red oak hardwood floor installed in an > apartment > that I will be renting out.
> What I want is a truly *CLEAR* finish to put down on the new unfinished > flooring.
....If you stain then recoating in a few years if there is damage might mean sanding to wood, with no stain recoating is much easier when there is damage....
Yes, that's one of the reasons that I was thinking of just using a clear finish and no staining. Unfortunately, the "clear" polyurethane finishes makes the wood look bad -- as if it was poorly stained.
JayB wrote: > "ransley" <Mark_Rans...@Yahoo.com> wrote in message > news:5befa4cf-1e31-49bf-9899-3671b0112473@g23g2000yqh.googlegroups.com... > On Nov 6, 10:23 am, "JayB" <J...@ertyurtio.ghj> wrote: >> I now have a new unfinished red oak hardwood floor installed in an >> apartment >> that I will be renting out.
>> What I want is a truly *CLEAR* finish to put down on the new unfinished >> flooring.
> ....If you stain then recoating in a few years if there is damage > might mean sanding to wood, with no stain recoating is much easier > when there is damage....
> Yes, that's one of the reasons that I was thinking of just using a clear > finish and no staining. Unfortunately, the "clear" polyurethane > finishes makes the wood look bad -- as if it was poorly stained.
Can you elaborate on how it looks "bad"? Geesh...red oak should be beautiful! I don't know flooring or wood grades involved in new mfg. flooring, just lots of old furniture. Is the flooring a brand name?
>> Yes, that's one of the reasons that I was thinking of just using a clear >> finish and no staining. Unfortunately, the "clear" polyurethane finishes >> makes the wood look bad -- as if it was poorly stained.
> Can you elaborate on how it looks "bad"? Geesh...red oak should be > beautiful! I don't know flooring or wood grades involved in new mfg. > flooring, just lots of old furniture. Is the flooring a brand name?
I bought it at Lumber Liquidators ( http://LumberLiquidators.com ). It's unfinished #2 Red Oak (with their product number of RO22, I think). The way it looks bad is that the grain absorbs the clear polyurethane and what started out as a very light colored wood becomes dark, blotchy, grainy, junky-looking wood. When I apply any color of oil-based stain, the stain absorbs in a way that the wood grain looks and is whatever color the stain makes it. But applying clear polyurethane doesn't do the same thing.
> Water base polys are white when liquid, clear when dry; however, they too > wet the wood just much less than oil poly.
My latest frustration is that I went to 3 stores (Home Depot, Lowes, and Ace Hardware) to find Minwax® Water Based Polyurethane for Floors Professional Formula and Minwax® Water Based Polyurethane for Floors Base Coat, and none of the 3 stores had it.
>>> Yes, that's one of the reasons that I was thinking of just using a >>> clear finish and no staining. Unfortunately, the "clear" >>> polyurethane finishes makes the wood look bad -- as if it was poorly >>> stained.
>> Can you elaborate on how it looks "bad"? Geesh...red oak should be >> beautiful! I don't know flooring or wood grades involved in new mfg. >> flooring, just lots of old furniture. Is the flooring a brand name?
> I bought it at Lumber Liquidators ( http://LumberLiquidators.com ). > It's unfinished #2 Red Oak (with their product number of RO22, I > think). The way it looks bad is that the grain absorbs the clear > polyurethane and what started out as a very light colored wood becomes > dark, blotchy, grainy, junky-looking wood. When I apply any color of > oil-based stain, the stain absorbs in a way that the wood grain looks > and is whatever color the stain makes it. But applying clear > polyurethane doesn't do the same thing.
With clear finish, oak generally is a mid-tone to deep brown, even without any stain. And it is very "grainy". It might help if you upload some pix and post a link, at least for the areas you consider problems. A good way to get a close idea of how wood will look with a clear finish is to simply wet it with solvent. Any chance you can replace some of the worst looking boards?
I took a look at the link you provided and went to the product...RO22 is called "rustic", as opposed to other red oak called "select" and some called "natural". If some of the wood is much harder, accounting for the very light look, you can blend them using stain if you apply the stain and don't wipe it off the light spots. I haven't done flooring, but lots of furniture, and have mixed my own stains. If you apply half-strength stain to the entire floor, you can help blend very light spots by brushing on same stain, full-strength and not wiping it off. Sort of a half-assed way of fixing something you apparently didn't expect when you purchased. I'll cross-post this and see if woodworkers have some better ideas.
>> Water base polys are white when liquid, clear when dry; however, they too >> wet the wood just much less than oil poly.
>My latest frustration is that I went to 3 stores (Home Depot, Lowes, and Ace >Hardware) to find Minwax® Water Based Polyurethane for Floors Professional >Formula and Minwax® Water Based Polyurethane for Floors Base Coat, and none >of the 3 stores had it.
> >>> Yes, that's one of the reasons that I was thinking of just using a > >>> clear finish and no staining. Unfortunately, the "clear" > >>> polyurethane finishes makes the wood look bad -- as if it was poorly > >>> stained.
> >> Can you elaborate on how it looks "bad"? Geesh...red oak should be > >> beautiful! I don't know flooring or wood grades involved in new mfg. > >> flooring, just lots of old furniture. Is the flooring a brand name?
> > I bought it at Lumber Liquidators (http://LumberLiquidators.com). > > It's unfinished #2 Red Oak (with their product number of RO22, I > > think). The way it looks bad is that the grain absorbs the clear > > polyurethane and what started out as a very light colored wood becomes > > dark, blotchy, grainy, junky-looking wood. When I apply any color of > > oil-based stain, the stain absorbs in a way that the wood grain looks > > and is whatever color the stain makes it. But applying clear > > polyurethane doesn't do the same thing.
> With clear finish, oak generally is a mid-tone to deep brown, even > without any stain. And it is very "grainy". It might help if you > upload some pix and post a link, at least for the areas you consider > problems. A good way to get a close idea of how wood will look with a > clear finish is to simply wet it with solvent. Any chance you can > replace some of the worst looking boards?
> I took a look at the link you provided and went to the product...RO22 is > called "rustic", as opposed to other red oak called "select" and some > called "natural". If some of the wood is much harder, accounting for > the very light look, you can blend them using stain if you apply the > stain and don't wipe it off the light spots. I haven't done flooring, > but lots of furniture, and have mixed my own stains. If you apply > half-strength stain to the entire floor, you can help blend very light > spots by brushing on same stain, full-strength and not wiping it off. > Sort of a half-assed way of fixing something you apparently didn't > expect when you purchased. I'll cross-post this and see if woodworkers > have some better ideas.
> I assume you wipe the stain?- Hide quoted text -
> - Show quoted text -
What about using a wood filler that is supposed to reduce stain absorbtion and reduce blotchiness?
> With clear finish, oak generally is a mid-tone to deep brown, even without > any stain. And it is very "grainy".
Maybe that's the problem. I was hoping to be able to apply a completely clear finish and have it look pretty much the way it looks now unfinished, but with a clear finsih on top. I guess that won't happen.
In my original post, I was also asking about clear Moisture Cure Urethane. The impression I got is that when it goes on it doesn't really change the color or look of the wood. I think they said that is what is used on bowling alleys. I don't know if all of that is true, but it doesn't matter anyway because I can't find any places to buy the stuff other than online.
> It might help if you upload some pix and post a link, at least for the > areas you consider problems. A good way to get a close idea of how wood > will look with a clear finish is to simply wet it with solvent. Any > chance you can replace some of the worst looking boards?
Replacing boards won't be a realsitic option at this point. And, I don't think I'll get to do the picture idea. Since today is Saturday, I need to figure out something and get this done this weekend.
I have a hunch that what I am going to end up doing is picking one of the stains that I already tested and go with that. The stains all darken and even out the color variations, and some of them look okay enough to go with (I'm leaning toward Colonial Maple or Golden Pecan). Maybe it won't be exactly what I was hoping for -- just a clear finish over the unfinished wood -- but it will be done.
> I took a look at the link you provided and went to the product...RO22 is > called "rustic", as opposed to other red oak called "select" and some > called "natural". If some of the wood is much harder, accounting for the > very light look, you can blend them using stain if you apply the stain and > don't wipe it off the light spots. I haven't done flooring, but lots of > furniture, and have mixed my own stains. If you apply half-strength stain > to the entire floor, you can help blend very light spots by brushing on > same stain, full-strength and not wiping it off. Sort of a half-assed way > of fixing something you apparently didn't expect when you purchased. I'll > cross-post this and see if woodworkers have some better ideas.
> I assume you wipe the stain?
Yes, I did do what the instructions said about applying the stain, leaving it there for a certain amount of time, and then wiping it. I thought it was fairly interesting the way the stains worked and looked by doing that. Earlier I had tried MinWax "Polyshades" which is a combination of stain and polyurethane in one. That was okay, and it would be a lot easier, but then I read that Polyshades is not supposed to be used on floors -- I am not sure why -- so I guess that's out.
Thanks for all of your help and suggestions. It does appear that you know a lot about all of this and have a lot of experience with it.
>> With clear finish, oak generally is a mid-tone to deep brown, even >> without any stain. And it is very "grainy".
> Maybe that's the problem. I was hoping to be able to apply a completely > clear finish and have it look pretty much the way it looks now > unfinished, but with a clear finsih on top. I guess that won't happen.
> In my original post, I was also asking about clear Moisture Cure > Urethane. The impression I got is that when it goes on it doesn't really > change the color or look of the wood. I think they said that is what is > used on bowling alleys. I don't know if all of that is true, but it > doesn't matter anyway because I can't find any places to buy the stuff > other than online.
>> It might help if you upload some pix and post a link, at least for the >> areas you consider problems. A good way to get a close idea of how >> wood will look with a clear finish is to simply wet it with solvent. >> Any chance you can replace some of the worst looking boards?
> Replacing boards won't be a realsitic option at this point. And, I > don't think I'll get to do the picture idea. Since today is Saturday, I > need to figure out something and get this done this weekend.
> I have a hunch that what I am going to end up doing is picking one of > the stains that I already tested and go with that. The stains all > darken and even out the color variations, and some of them look okay > enough to go with (I'm leaning toward Colonial Maple or Golden Pecan). > Maybe it won't be exactly what I was hoping for -- just a clear finish > over the unfinished wood -- but it will be done.
>> I took a look at the link you provided and went to the product...RO22 >> is called "rustic", as opposed to other red oak called "select" and >> some called "natural". If some of the wood is much harder, accounting >> for the very light look, you can blend them using stain if you apply >> the stain and don't wipe it off the light spots. I haven't done >> flooring, but lots of furniture, and have mixed my own stains. If you >> apply half-strength stain to the entire floor, you can help blend very >> light spots by brushing on same stain, full-strength and not wiping it >> off. Sort of a half-assed way of fixing something you apparently >> didn't expect when you purchased. I'll cross-post this and see if >> woodworkers have some better ideas.
>> I assume you wipe the stain?
> Yes, I did do what the instructions said about applying the stain, > leaving it there for a certain amount of time, and then wiping it. I > thought it was fairly interesting the way the stains worked and looked > by doing that. Earlier I had tried MinWax "Polyshades" which is a > combination of stain and polyurethane in one. That was okay, and it > would be a lot easier, but then I read that Polyshades is not supposed > to be used on floors -- I am not sure why -- so I guess that's out.
> Thanks for all of your help and suggestions. It does appear that you > know a lot about all of this and have a lot of experience with it.
Most good paint stores ... Sherwin Williams, Ben Moore...carry Minwax products. A real paint store is a good place to make friends:o) The issue you are dealing with is a less than ideal selection of wood....if you read the details of each type of red oak on the website, you will see that. The "rustic" grade is the leftovers, with knots, less-than-desireable grain, etc. Always a good learning experience :o) You still have a good solid floor that will take lots of wear and tear - unless there is a flood or animals toileting on oak floors, it is hard to damage it. Done properly, it is also pretty easy to maintain. Taking off shoes at the door will help :o) I'd take solid oak before pergo-type c=== any day.
I stripped oak kitchen cabinets for a friend once because I was out of work and needed money. Only after I slathered on paint remover did I realize the end panels of the cabinets were not solid oak like rest of the cabinet...they were particle board with printed grain. I was already on the verge of nervous breakdown and that almost put me over the edge. I got out my art stuff and between wood stain and a few brush strokes with oil paint I was able to fake the grain pretty well. Not obvious. I also painted fake woodgrain on floor boards for a doll house. If you have spots that really stick out like a sore thumb, you can paint in - with a light touch - enough grain to camouflage the spots before you do final finish.
> >> Yes, that's one of the reasons that I was thinking of just using a clear > >> finish and no staining. Unfortunately, the "clear" polyurethane finishes > >> makes the wood look bad -- as if it was poorly stained.
> > Can you elaborate on how it looks "bad"? Geesh...red oak should be > > beautiful! I don't know flooring or wood grades involved in new mfg. > > flooring, just lots of old furniture. Is the flooring a brand name?
> I bought it at Lumber Liquidators (http://LumberLiquidators.com). It's > unfinished #2 Red Oak (with their product number of RO22, I think). The way > it looks bad is that the grain absorbs the clear polyurethane and what > started out as a very light colored wood becomes dark, blotchy, grainy, > junky-looking wood. When I apply any color of oil-based stain, the stain > absorbs in a way that the wood grain looks and is whatever color the stain > makes it. But applying clear polyurethane doesn't do the same thing.
I cant understand how clear over new wood can look bad, ive seen to much red oak that never looks bad after a light sanding, Unless its Water Damaged and old and oxidised. Give it a light sanding and think about water damage and getting your money back if it still looks bad. There has been alot of flood damaged wood from southern floods, I can imagine it was purchased cheap from insurance companies and reboxed, that stuff doesnt just get junked. Pay a pro floor guy to come over and get his opinion. New lightly sanded red oak looks great with any clear finish that ive seen over the last 35 years. The wood and finish will darken over time a shade or two, I would go clear with only the last coat being a lower sheen if thats what you want in a finish.
>> What about using a wood filler that is supposed to reduce stain >> absorbtion and reduce blotchiness?
> I'll have to test that out. I assume you mean a wood sealer, but > I'll try it.
He said wood *FILLER*. One would assume that is what he means. Paste wood filler.
A sealer - a different thing - might help depending on what it is.
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> .... The > issue you are dealing with is a less than ideal selection of > wood....if you read the details of each type of red oak on the > website, you will see that. The "rustic" grade is the leftovers, > with knots, less-than-desireable grain, etc. Always a good learning > experience ...
Yep, that and few other stupid choices on my part turned this whole thing into a big mess. So, for now, I am just going to slog my way through this and chalk it up as an expensive and seemingly neverending learning experience. Next time, prefinished hardwood for sure -- just install it and walk out the door with nothing to finish. Plus, by buying unfinished wood, and too low of a grade of wood to boot, I ended up with way more wasted wood than I would have had with prefinished wood. Oh well.
:o) You still have a good solid floor that will take lots
> of wear and tear - unless there is a flood or animals toileting on > oak floors, it is hard to damage it. Done properly, it is also > pretty easy to maintain. Taking off shoes at the door will help :o) I'd > take solid oak before pergo-type c=== any day.
> I stripped oak kitchen cabinets for a friend once because I was out of > work and needed money. Only after I slathered on paint remover did I > realize the end panels of the cabinets were not solid oak like rest of > the cabinet...they were particle board with printed grain. I was > already on the verge of nervous breakdown and that almost put me over > the edge. I got out my art stuff and between wood stain and a few > brush strokes with oil paint I was able to fake the grain pretty > well. Not obvious. I also painted fake woodgrain on floor boards > for a doll house. If you have spots that really stick out like a > sore thumb, you can paint in - with a light touch - enough grain to > camouflage the spots before you do final finish.
I like the story about the cabinets and it almost putting you over the edge. I know the feeling.
>>> What about using a wood filler that is supposed to reduce stain >>> absorbtion and reduce blotchiness? >> I'll have to test that out. I assume you mean a wood sealer, but >> I'll try it.
> He said wood *FILLER*. One would assume that is what he means. Paste wood > filler.
> A sealer - a different thing - might help depending on what it is.
JayB wrote: > norm...@earthlink.net wrote: >> .... The >> issue you are dealing with is a less than ideal selection of >> wood....if you read the details of each type of red oak on the >> website, you will see that. The "rustic" grade is the leftovers, >> with knots, less-than-desireable grain, etc. Always a good learning >> experience ...
> Yep, that and few other stupid choices on my part turned this whole thing > into a big mess. So, for now, I am just going to slog my way through this > and chalk it up as an expensive and seemingly neverending learning > experience. Next time, prefinished hardwood for sure -- just install it and > walk out the door with nothing to finish. Plus, by buying unfinished wood, > and too low of a grade of wood to boot, I ended up with way more wasted wood > than I would have had with prefinished wood. Oh well.
Not a stupid choice at all...until one has a good amount of experience they are not likely to realize there are "grades" of unfinished woods. I'd be willing to bet the floor will look beautiful and very few people will notice what you have concerns with about the appearance of the wood grain. Red oak is still gorgeous stuff....hell, just advertise the rental as "rustic red oak flooring throughout" and charge an extra $100/month :o)
> :o) You still have a good solid floor that will take lots >> of wear and tear - unless there is a flood or animals toileting on >> oak floors, it is hard to damage it. Done properly, it is also >> pretty easy to maintain. Taking off shoes at the door will help :o) I'd >> take solid oak before pergo-type c=== any day.
>> I stripped oak kitchen cabinets for a friend once because I was out of >> work and needed money. Only after I slathered on paint remover did I >> realize the end panels of the cabinets were not solid oak like rest of >> the cabinet...they were particle board with printed grain. I was >> already on the verge of nervous breakdown and that almost put me over >> the edge. I got out my art stuff and between wood stain and a few >> brush strokes with oil paint I was able to fake the grain pretty >> well. Not obvious. I also painted fake woodgrain on floor boards >> for a doll house. If you have spots that really stick out like a >> sore thumb, you can paint in - with a light touch - enough grain to >> camouflage the spots before you do final finish.
> I like the story about the cabinets and it almost putting you over the edge. > I know the feeling.
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